Wilson Heckles Obama
Posted by Tony on 10 Sep 2009 at 05:45 am | Tagged as: Federal, Presidency
Last night South Carolina Congressman Joe Wilson shouted “you lie” at President Obama during his address to Congress on health care. The looks on the faces of Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, Vice President Joe Biden and President Obama himself speak volumes about the lack of decorum displayed by the Republican heckler.
According to Wikipedia Congressman Wilson became active in the Republican party at a young age. During his early years he was an aide to South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond. Yes, Wilson was an aide to the same Strom Thurmond that filibustered the US Senate for 24 hours and 18 minutes in opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1957.
To me Wilson’s shout represented more than his position on whether he believed that “illegals” were covered under the Obama health care plan. To me Wilson’s shout is the perfect example of the politics of emotion and not reason. When will it end? When will a real discussion of health care issues begin? One thing is for sure, Congressman Joe Wilson won’t be the person to start that discussion.
After the address Congressman Joe Wilson issued this apology to President Obama…”This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the President’s remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill. While I disagree with the President’s statement, my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the President for this lack of civility.”
The talking point that the “loyal opposition” will parrot, is that there is no mechanism which requires care seekers to prove their legal residency. This, in their minds, is proof positive that health care reform is corrupted and should be re-tooled. Start from scratch, as they say.
I’d like to make two points:
1) The good samaritan in me does not think to ask an accident victim for id. And as a soldier, I gave care to enemy soldiers once they were placed in my custody. Health care is a human right.
2) The idea of requiring id reminds me of voter suppression tactics used in the segregated South.
Illegals are boogeypeople used by the extremme right to strike fear into the hearts of bigots that know in their gut what Sarah Palin means when she talks about the “real” America.
Amen.
Right on Jack and the ‘real’ America and ‘we want our country back’ remarks are very much code for ‘holy crap, there is a Black guy in the White House and we want him the hell out of there and very, very fast.’ I have no problem with principled disagreement on policy matters, that is what is supposed to happen in a democracy. But mindless, shallow cant - yuck, yuck, yuck - fron EITHER side or sides on substantive policy discussions.
This morning on WCAP Niki Tsongas was asked about this very question and responded that no federal subsidies would go to illegal immigrants, then went into the typical donkey talking points. When pressed by the host to say whether or not they’d be eligible for the public option, she hemmed and hawed, but NEVER said they would NOT be eligible.
So if they’re eligible for the public option, won’t they be receiving federal funds, since the government is what will fund this public option and keep it supposedly affordable?
That’s why the opposition gets frustrated. Because proponents of this plan play fast and loose with words, legal jargon and yes, the facts.
And Jack, illegals are ILLEGALS. They should be entitled to nothing because they’re not supposed to be here in the first place.
Jack: the good samaritan in me does not think that we should burden our country with a flood of illegals into the system that is already overtaxed. Look at the emergency rooms in AZ and CA for example of your version of good samaritanism.
Health care is a privilege allowed to those in this country who have worked for it and deserve the benefits, I don’t believe it’s a right.
I know you’ve heard this one before and we both know all the pro and con arguments but you should try going to Mexico and walking into a hospital demanding free care.
If people want any type of health care in this country, they should apply for the privilege and go through the ‘legal’ process of becoming a citizen and then we’ll talk about their rights.
Health care is not a “right”.. if it were, then by definition, you are requiring one person or persons to serve another.
Rights are individual.. right to speak, to assemble, to due process, etc.
Manipulating the health care industry to try to improve access is one thing.. requiring them to serve all without recompense is ultimately a form of indentured servitude.
Why do you think there is such a dearth of nurses and GPs?
I encourage the idea of PRIVATE customer owned non-profit co-ops.. without government appointed boards and directors.
Allow the co-ops, and other insurance companies to function across state lines, and then you would gain some value in numbers of customers as well as competition that will work to bring costs down.
The public option is what will kill most of health care reform.. however we may succeed at getting some insurance reform.
I don’t get it.
When an ambulance pulls up on an accident do they ask for ID before they treat you? Does the emergency department refuse to look at you if you dont have ID? The answer to both is no. This is the way we already do things. Care first, questions later. These examples are two of the most expensive methods to deliver healthcare.
The cost gets distributed among the people who pay as it is. There is already a free care pool in this state for unreimbursed expenses that the hospitals fight to get their share of. The problem is differing price levels, for the same care in some cases.
Question is, do we want to provide more preventive care regardless of your “stauts”? Because its a hell of a lot cheaper than waiting until it gets to be a major medial problem at the ER or a public health issue, which cost so much more to solve.
As for Mr. Wilson, what an ass. You disgraced Congess, the Presidency, your office and the people you serve. There is ample time and many places for your to express your opinion. This wasn’t the time or place.
Exactly “tryin”. Mr. Wilson should have waited till he was OUTSIDE the chamber to call the president a liar and a loser, as Harry Reid did with then President Bush.
Oops, I forgot. Some believe only Republicans are rude and disrespectful.
Also, still waiting for a good answer as to why the President and his supporters are indeed lying about illegal aliens and their access to this public/government option.
Give it up on the Wilson thing.. you don’t remember the Democrat’s Booing Bush during a state of the union speech?
Oh, I guess that was the right time and place.
Right in Lowell: Do you think that people living here without proper documentation have the ability to acquire the proper, legal documentation and simply choose not to? Also the word “illegal” gets thrown out a lot. It is illegal to speed, but many of us do it. What do we mean when we use the word “illegal” and what type of “crime” are we talking about?
Shawn: I would disagree. Health care is about having the right to live. And the right to live is a right. A right recognized by our very own Declaration of Independence as well as countless other documents including the UN Declaration of Human Rights which the US signed on to in 1948 (http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/).
On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights the full text of which appears in the following pages.
Article 25.
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
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Out of politeness, I will entertain a discussion of “American exceptionalisn,” but know now that I think it is a crock.
The UN document cited is built upon the ideals of our Founders. It has been evolved and improved upon and I am willing to accept its validity as a Charter for world wide human rights.
From POTUS:
That large-heartedness — that concern and regard for the plight of others — is not a partisan feeling. It’s not a Republican or a Democratic feeling. It, too, is part of the American character — our ability to stand in other people’s shoes; a recognition that we are all in this together, and when fortune turns against one of us, others are there to lend a helping hand; a belief that in this country, hard work and responsibility should be rewarded by some measure of security and fair play; and an acknowledgment that sometimes government has to step in to help deliver on that promise.
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RIL:
Niki can not speak of a “Bill”, as there are currently several. You know that.
Illegals? This is a border control issue. When that strawman is put up to distract from the issue at hand, I brush it aside. And it has been pointed out, this cost is already built into the current regime.
At some point we should discuss all “under the table” business practices. The Chamber of Commerce, law abiding citizens that they are, can’t wait to disinfect that festering sore.
Ow. I hurt my ribs laughing.
For sure, in the past no one has ever shown any kind of discourtesy to a President giving an address to the US Congress.
To bad. My vision of a legislative body is Betty Boothroyd shouting “Order, Order” while back benchers shout “Shame, Shame.” But that is the House of Commons and all those well behaved Brits.
Sure, we offer aid to anyone we stumble across, including someone who was just shooting at us and is now wound and hors de combat. It is what makes us who we are. And, as “trying to stay anonymous” notes, it is cheaper to give illegal immigrants preventive care than to deal with them in the Emergency Room.
Unfortunately, the question is, why are they here in the first place, jumping the queue of people who are following the legal process to become American Residents and then Citizens?
So, one more time, in not treating an existing social problem, we lie to ourselves about what is happening, so we don’t have to admit that we just can’t (or won’t) come up with an acceptable Federal policy.
That is the most embarrassing part.
Regards — Cliff
PS: Did the President say “lie”? I was in class and am only hearing it from playback.
No Shawn the Dems were wrong then too. No doubt. Not the place or time. It is about respecting the institutions and setting.
How does Wilson help himself, his party or advancing his point of view and his district’s needs by his actions? Whatever view you take, there is no denying this one, He just put an enormous bullseye on himself.
It’s not a town meeting, it’s an address to Congress and Wilson showed a lack of respect for the office of the president and for Congress with his outburst.
I’m a little confused, though, by people who say that illegals are not really illegal, or they don’t want to be illegal, or some of us break other laws…?
My brother in law came here legally from Colombia. He waited in line for over a decade. His wife died in the mean time, and his older son had a 21st birthday, and was no longer eligible to come as his dependent. Was he a sucker? Should he have just cut the line and said, “Well, I don’t WANT to be illegal.”
Immigrants built this country and I would never want to live in a country without the diversity they bring. But I don’t know of any countries that have open borders, unless that country is too weak to protect them. I know a lot of illegal aliens. I’m not going to run off and turn them in because I happen to like them, but intellectually I recognize that like France, Mexico, Japan, Sweden, Canada, and, well name a country, we need some kind of immigration policy…don’t we? That means there is a line…doesn’t it?
Just realized that Obama paves highways for illegals to use. Oh noes. All those shovel ready projects are for the betterment of America’s illegals. Thank you Rep. Wilson. You’re lack of decorum has opened my eyes. NASA puts satellites into …space, so illegals can use GPS and cell phones. The FDA protects migrant illegals from touching produce with nasty chemicals. Illegals don’t drive clunkers anymore. There is no end to this!
POTUS-
There are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false. The reforms — the reforms I’m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: You lie! (Boos.)
OK. So Obama is NOT saying illegals won’t benefit by health care reform. He IS saying that his plan would NOT insure them.
Let me dice this another way. Do you gripe about Obama’s use of federal Highway funds to pave the way for illegals crossing the border? NO! Because the roads are there for ALL OF US and it just so happens we have no way of stopping illegals from using them.
Are you in favor of setting up roadblocks to ferret out illegals using our highways?
Obama didn’t lie. The conservative meme is that ACORN is stacking the census with illegals to skew the results, so that Dems can gerrymander themselves into permanent power. GOPers talk as if illegals are a constituency of the Democratic Party. This is politics of hate and most Americans are tired of it. (Except for Palin fans)
Illegals will have access to hospitals because they are human beings. It has been that way for a long time.
Full Disclosure: Whenever I hear someone speaking Gaelic in Southie, I get nervous.
In regards to comment #3: Can’t someone just honestly disagree with the President without being called racist?
Lots of people talked about “taking the country back” and changing the direction of the nation, etc. in the 2008 election. Change, youth, and a new party took power, and I think the impetus had more to do with flawed policies from 2001-08, NOT with the race of anyone who implemented those policies.
If we’re going to start calling everything a code word for something more evil and sinister, we’re not going to be able to do political slogans. I agree there is coded speech, like Ronald Reagan referring to “states’ rights” in Philadelphia, MS in 1984, or Trent Lott’s “proud to be Dixiecrats” speech in 2002…however, if we’re going to call every appeal to American values, or to tradition, or to anything oppositional some kind of “code word” I think things pretty quickly turn into a “heads you lose, tails I win” for those making the accusation..
The UN can declare whatever it wants.. the US’s sovereignty comes first..
The right to life does not imply the right to service that right.. otherwise you could say that the right to free press means that you should be provided newspapers paid for by the government.
The service of others has a cost, and each of us should be responsible for the basics of that.
Note that I don’t disagree with having some sort of protection for catastrophic care, or the most poor (especially the wards of the state).
But I do believe that the market can create this best by reducing the regulation and restrictions and letting the system work.
I notice that everyone is ignoring the success of companies like Whole Foods (one of many) who are requiring their employees to compare prices for treatments and control the costs themselves.
The government always fails when it tries to jump into health care… notice that nobody talks about Medicare Part C anymore (government coverage of catastrophic health care.. that lasted almost a year before it crashed and burned from deficits)
Somebody.. anybody.. tell me where there is 500 Billion that can be cut out of Medicare. And if you can, explain why the same group who says they can run a nationalized health care system has allowed that waste to go on, while knowing about it, for decades?
90% of the country is served by a market based system. Not always as good as we like (that’s why I endorse some insurance reform).
Why destroy everything to cover the other 10%
I would like to go back to Tony’s original post and this comment:
According to Wikipedia Congressman Wilson became active in the Republican party at a young age. During his early years he was an aide to South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond. Yes, Wilson was an aide to the same Strom Thurmond that filibustered the US Senate for 24 hours and 18 minutes in opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1957.
I am wondering if this means that all who have come in contact with the current President Pro Tempore of the US Senate♠ are as suspect as Congressman WIlson? We are talking about the former Democratic Minority Leader and the former Democratic Majority Leader, Robert Byrd. Dean of the Senate.
As Kad Barma might point out, both parties have things in their past not to be proud of.
Regards — Cliff
♠ Third in line to be the President of our nation.
Reducing regulation? Man, you’re insane if you think that’s the answer. Haven’t you heard of recision yet? What are you gonna do when that happens - take your business to another insurance company who won’t insure you because you now have a pre-existing condition?
Health-care doesn’t work in the free market because they (insurers) make money by not treating you.
I think when someone seems to be lying, it’s sometimes right to do the risky thing and say, “You lie.” People who are lying expect not to be confronted. This is one reason why our system of free speech is so valuable. We can confront the powerful, “speak truth to power” as the phrase has it.
We can say anything, including “You lie.” No harm was done, and some good resulted. In this case, the congressman’s interjection brought several news networks to a state of alertness, and, according to what I read, those networks attempted to get an answer to the question of whether the President was lying at that moment. So the outburst served the public.
Since I think Mr. Obama does engage in a lot of smooth, calculated and conscious deception, I’m kind of glad the hot-blooded representative acted up.
“The service of others has a cost” “Health care is not a “right”.. if it were, then by definition, you are requiring one person or persons to serve another.”
So are you saying that being protected by police and fire fighters are privileges that have to be earned and not rights?
Are you saying the ability for children to get public education is a privilege and not a right?
Having a public defender in the court setting is a privilege that is earned and not a right?
That having a US military to protect our country from foreign enemies is a privilege of the few and not a right?
Having elected officials in government is a privilege and not a right?
These are all cases of people “serving” others as a basic right. The issue of whether you require the labor of someone else or not has nothing to do with whether something is a privilege or a right.
protection by police and fire departments are a service that we purchase ..
I have a right to redress, and a right to due process.., a right against self-incrimination.. the purchase of those services (as well as investigative services and public defenders) helps protect these rights.. but does not provide them.
The police and defenders are an extension of the justice system designed to do just that.
The public defenders are an outcome of those rights.. and are required. As people forced by the government to provide a service, talk to them sometime about how little they are paid and cases they are forced to take.
Having elected officials is a right (right to vote). Who chooses to offer that service is meeting a contract, as are those who choose to join the military to protect all our rights.
You could propose that all citizens have a right to “access” to health care. That would be different. If that were true (I would require a constitutional amendment to make it so to me), then it would be the role of the government to make sure that service is available… then its a question of definition as to “what is health care?”
But “health care” being a right? Its not right now. Just as there is no “right” to “education”.
anonymous..
I thought the free care pool was gone as part of the Massachusetts health care system.
Everyone has health care now, remember? The hospitals no longer needed that pool.
That savings would thus reduce the cost of health care.. remember that, too?
Or did you notice that the only state with this universal health care system now has the highest costing health care in the country.
Here’s a news item on the usefulness of emotional, heated up speech in this democracy. Wilson was the guy who shouted “You lie.” Let’s never put politeness ahead of urgently getting our truths said.
“The apologies are out of the way and the offense forgiven. But the underlying policy argument remains, (Snip) In the Senate, Democrats in the so called “Gang of Six,” a group of bipartisan senators on the Senate Finance Committee which is the last panel yet to release its bill, began moving quickly to close the loophole that Wilson helped bring greater attention to.” (Fox News.
Shawn, I thought you were at least a little more sensible than on this thread. You don’t think it’s a moral right (nobody’s arguing constitutional, BTW) to be cared for? Basic needs SHOULD be basic rights, and your comparison to education proves my point. Education is not a right guaranteed by the federal constitution, but statutes recognize it. Hence the public school system which everyone of appropriate age has an absolute right to attend in their district of residence more-or-less free of direct charge. The same should be true of health care.
Also, there may have been a bit of jeering at previous addresses to Congress, but no member as far as I know, has ever before shouted “You lie!” to the face of the PRESIDENT in the HOUSE CHAMBER! Even the House of Commons doesn’t allow that.
Well then Jack, if there isn’t a single “bill,” why are we even having these discussions.
That’s the entire point of the dissent. The Democrats keep promising this won’t be included, and that won’t be covered, and those lies aren’t true. But the fact of the matter is, all these so-called lies about the plans are in fact true. They weren’t just pulled out of mid-air. Each one of the five bills contains something extremely controversial, and until we know for sure which will be included and which will not, we will continue to fight this thing and win this fight.
Middle America has spoken. Many concessions have already been made to get Middle America on board. Many more still have to be made. If the President, Pelosi and Reid are REALLY interested in reform, they will take conservative, baby steps toward it. If they try to ram something down our throats, it’s going to get rammed right back down theirs, first by the more moderate members of their party, and then by the more moderate members of the electorate come November 2010.
Which is why the “deadline” wasn’t met. Even the most stubborn Democrats won’t commit political suicide.
Mr. RIL, I that that the must suspicion-inducing fact is the non-existence of anything on paper that is the Obama White House bill. If that’s not the the sign of manipulating and fast-talking–never having anything on paper–then what is? People are resisting the “bill” because it has all the signs of a crooked, deceptive maneuver. It doesn’t matter what the salesman says if you have decided that the guy is just plain crooked. And when he is talking indiscriminately about five different bills, none of which is his…well how can anyone with a brain take him seriously? I assume at least some Democrats locally are a bit embarrassed by this guy’s behavior. I would be if I were in the party.